Is An Avid Pro Tools HD Native Core System Expensive?
Russ Hughes
Some early guestimates at street prices would actually put the Avid Pro Tools HD Native Core and about the same, if not lower, cost of a comparable Logic based pro systems.
Here's a quick chart to show street prices and what the street price for an Avid system could end up at:
Apple Logic - $500
Apogee Symphony 64 - $995
Apogee Symphony IO - $1700
16 input card - $2000
16 output card - $2000
TOTAL - $7200
Avid Pro Tools HD FREE
Avid PT HD Native - $3000
Avid HD I/O 16in/out - $3650
TOTAL - $6650
Our understanding is that you can also run your DAW on this system so you are not tied to Pro Tools, so if you add the cost of Logic in there you are paying about the same.
The only question is, have Avid created a great sounding system that can take on Apogee?
Reader Comments (16)
God compare with SSL MADI Xtreme/Alphalink:
SSL Alphalink + MADI Xtreme Bundle
$2700 nets you 48x48 (24 analog i/o, 24 digital) 129dB dynamic range with low latency cue mixing and open standard, future-proof MADI interfacing. The same capability from Apogee or Avid would cost what? $15,000 or more in the native versions?
SSL is not gouging on this price. Apogee and Avid are in trust to do so. Their gross margins on these things are ridiculous...90% or more, way way over the industry standard in pro audio. Which will be reflected in the resale value for the poor sap stuck with one.
Damn, so much for restoring my faith.
Think I'll upgrade to an mboxpro and music production toolkit complete thanks!
Add to that the additional content logic comes with and it will easily exceed the value of a basic pro tools HD system. And logic doesn't need a dongle, so less potential for things to go wrong.
Atleast AVID is changing things, not sure if this will be enough though. If a new version of Sonar and Reaper come out before the end of year will add more pressure.
Honestly, 6000 is way to high for a project / home studio compared to what we can have today for this price. The concecpt is good, but I don't know how they can justify this price range in 2010.
I will now wait to see what Protools 9 will add to the Mbox option. I have a 002 and I was thinking about upgrading to HD native, but not with the current price. And I think a lot of musiciens in my situation are just thinking the same thing. 6000 to get ADC and more track count is NOT a good deal.
People complain too much. This looks interesting.
Wow wow wow.
Russ, you don't know how excited I was about today's announcement that is until I heard today's announcement. Before I go on, I read all of Russ' post and he said one thing that is the most important, in the myst of all this hardware where is the focus on the actual software that uses this!? Where are the improvements on reliability, where's 64 bit support, where's offline bouncing!? Those apply to HD AND LE! I do run in fact run Pro Tools LE with might I say a faster computer than HD could ever be and these second rate engineers at AVID can't update it so that it uses half of what's available to it, it's unbelievable. Now on to avid...
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
I think that's new Pro Tools user modo because with Pro Tools SE and now this nonsense I can't think of a better reaction. Seriously though, whose making these decisions at Avid? Someone tell this guy it's 2010!!
If I want to use my computer for processing why on earth do I need a PCIe card?! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! Does Logic (which runs 64bit and software instruments like a joke) use one? Russ you talked about cultural perception among consumer, well, I'm starting to identify AVID as one hugely negative disappointment. When I think of AVID, I think let down, when I think of Pro Tools, I think poor software engineering, antiquated, behind, old, not innovative, not 64 bit. Yes Pro Tools at is core is good but in general my thoughts when I open the program and when it craps out on a computer with 16 GB of ram can't help to be this thing does more harm than good.
As far as I'm concerned AVID has one good thing going for it, the past. The innovations and leadership of DIGIDESIGN. So far this new ownership is destroying the Pro Tools brand with these insulting releases. Let's see how much further this company goes in destroying a good thing.
Not to mention that you still need a macpro, or a desktop pc to use it. No laptops, no imacs, etc.
Well put Russ,
Maybe not a lot of Symphony users come by this thread very often, but with the breakdown, HD makes more sense!
From what I've heard, the new HD I/O sounds SUPERIOR to an Apogee
Retarded Expensive! Total rip off! Old technology!
When I look up the price for a 16 channel HD I/O and Pro Tools Native bundle on Sweetwater's site I see the price as being $7995, How did you come up with $6650?
The price of 16 channel Symphony I/O, Symphony 64 card, and Logic is $7179
@ Lester
Because no one in their right mind pays those kind of prices for gear.
@ Avid Pro Tools Blog
Not sure I follow what you are saying then, are you saying that the new Pro Tools system is over priced at $7995? Because that is the only price I have seen.
@ Lester
Sorry bud, no I meant STREET PRICE not dealer price, there are already dealers discounting on day of release, so far down by about $500, so just watch.
It's an interesting step, but only for people who are already dependent on Protools.
Let's look at the pure math for people not in post production(those guys use PT a lot 'cause it works and I'm one of them) :
Avid PCIe Native HD card + Omni interface. $6000 at Sweetwater.
The card costs $3500 standalone.
The RME HDSPe card does the exact same to a degree. It has one port and connects to a choice of interfaces of RME, such as the Digiface and Multiface, which each have DSP-driven low latency monitoring onboard. The newer interfaces of RME even have onboard effects for tracking.
And it costs 260 British pounds including tax. The Digiface costs 430 pounds. Hook up any converters and preamps of any supplier, and you have a more flexible solution, though with a little more fuss.
Or look at the Symphony PCIe card for 720 pounds. Converters and preamps of your choice, and off you go, complete with low latency monitoring(Maestro). If you want to use Apogee, it's about the same price.
Do folks in music production really want to spend this kind of money on such hardware ? Don't they already have that hardware anyway ?
And the most important question of all. Is the software, Protools 8.5, worth the hardware upgrade yet ?
For post production, I'd wait and see a while. The software is usually what ruins it all for at least a couple of months.
This is the HD equivalent of the Mbox Micro: a dongle. It doesn't actually do anything besides allow you to hook up the Avid interfaces, and let PT HD run. And it force you to use a desktop computer, for no good reason.
I'm sorry, but Avid is kicking the midrange user — serious home studio owners, small project studios — out to the cold. For $7000 I could put together a much better deal on Logic or several other DAWs. Ok, I'd skip the super-high-end Apogee converters (except for my little Mini Me), but I could manage RME, and get a whole slew of nice pres.
Looks like a used 003 Rack+ is my only viable upgrade option (from an Mbox 2 Pro) within PT land.